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KonaSniper

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War is Over Before It Starts

Wed Jul 22, 2020 7:42 am
Can anyone help me to understand what is happening here?  Twice in the past week we have fought in wars that ended before we could even start.  We were ready and waiting to start but the Battle Button never comes up and the war is over before we can even fire a shot.

Look at the screenshot.  The order is 

1) They win the war
2)  They attack and deal 100%
3)  Invasion phase ends
4)  War starts

The other war looks pretty much the same.

Something just isn't right here???
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SnipeyMcSniperFace

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Wed Jul 22, 2020 11:10 am
KonaSniper wrote:
Can anyone help me to understand what is happening here?  Twice in the past week we have fought in wars that ended before we could even start.  We were ready and waiting to start but the Battle Button never comes up and the war is over before we can even fire a shot.

Look at the screenshot.  The order is 

1) They win the war
2)  They attack and deal 100%
3)  Invasion phase ends
4)  War starts

The other war looks pretty much the same.

Something just isn't right here???.


 

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There's a couple of issues described here in your post. The recorded (message) log and the actual events.

Order of events in the message log
This is how it has been (intermittently) for as long as I can remember. The "order of events" being out of whack in the messages log is not a surprise to me - in my experience this is more the norm than the exception. I find it best to ignore the order of things in the message log - for some reason they are scrambled - all I care about is the actual result.  I screen pic every screen at the end of each war - there is seemingly no set order they occur in. The only time they seem consistent is when my clan's opponents are not online.

Battles being lost before and after they start
There are lots of different Battle start times but let's assume single player clans - so there's your start time and their start time. The gap between these can be considerable. More on these gaps below.

Incongruous experience
I've had cases where the battle log says my clan won, the Victory screen is delayed by minutes, the messages scroll says I did 100% damage, etc... but then viola! 10 minutes later the battle log reverts to a loss and I get a Defeat screen. A giveaway that this is going to happen is the incremental 1 to 10 rewards do not go up by one (during the gap time). Funny thing is that it never seems to happen the other way (where it reverts my clan from a loss to a win).

The gaps have been measured in the past
There's also been reports of delays of up to 28 seconds between players. Most recently I've experienced losing a war while we are still (just) in the Planning Phase. We don't even get to see the Battle button or even get a chance to fire one shot into the enemy core (and we are online watching the timer count down at the time).

Punchline
Short story is: The battle component of the clan wars system is not perfect.

How long has this not been quite right
The battle component never has been quite right / reliable and consistent from way back at UPD11 (and the associated 'hot fixes' that were done to UPD11 in the days that followed and some promised fixes in UPD15). Over time, just about everything else around in the broader clan wars system has changed but the battle component and it's intermittently prohibitive timing anomalies remain essentially the same - which is still downright annoying at times. 24 hours of Planning Phase (if you can get a match) then no chance to have a battle has always made for a pretty dull anti-climax, in my opinion. Get on the round-a-bout and do it all again - maybe this next time it will be your clan that wins and the other clan don't get to see the battle button at all.

All the other scuttlebutt is backseat
There's been so many interesting (and sometimes very passionate) threads on all the other components to the clan wars system, but, this issue of timing remains the crux of what needs to be fixed, in my opinion. Whether we **** it out in PvP to earn points that pay for buffs to get an advantage (or we mindlessly assign thousands of SMs to the war effort to get a couple of extra seconds to attack the opposing clan core) doesn't really matter too much if you don't get to do the battle you've prepared for!

References
A couple of relevant posts / threads. If you need more thread references let me know and I'll spend a bit more time to dig some out.

viewtopic.php?f=2031&t=693521

viewtopic.php?f=2031&t=688295&start=70#p3855169

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SnipeyMcSniperFace / DT was a78d2d5 now a78d2d5b / Android / Server: apa / 1. ​Been playing SF since UPD6 (Aug 2016) and every day since Nov 2016 / 2. I am a Gameloft customer not employee / 3. Sometimes I find it annoying when SF changes / 4. I value privacy so I am not on Facebook / 5. I don't take cosplay selfies of me dressed in latex as SF characters like Val or Daisy, etc. (no matter how cute it would be!)
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Load Toad

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Wed Jul 22, 2020 4:21 pm
Three things that are at the cause of your problem. First you are in a small clan with low core HP rating that is easy to kill in seconds with the current weapons. Second if the other clan uses a boost and you don't its over even quicker. Third GL in the past has said that start times in wars can have a 3-6 second lag between clans due to servers. So if they get a head start on a small clan with low HP core the war is over before you even get a start button. Your best chance is to add another player or use a defense boost. You may still lose if they get a head start, but you might get to put up a fight. Most larger clans never even notice the delay just maybe a delay with spinning wheel at start of war.
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SnipeyMcSniperFace

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Thu Jul 23, 2020 3:33 am
Load Toad wrote:
Three things that are at the cause of your problem. First you are in a small clan with low core HP rating that is easy to kill in seconds with the current weapons.



 

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This issue used to happen when I was in a large clan with 15+ active members and 5 reds. I agree that a longer battle time (created by higher core HP) can help to address the lag issue - but the lag issue remains part of the crux here.
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Second if the other clan uses a boost and you don't its over even quicker.

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It's difficult to observe if the opposing clan is using boosts or not because, when the issue occurs, you never get to see the screen showing the opposing clan's boosts. (This visibility of the boosts that the opposing clan applies - way before the battle - is a topic for another thread. Noting here that even though I detested the mindless laying of SMs to go to war, under the old system, at least we had visibility of what the opposing clan was doing).

Conversely, my clan can stack up all the boosts possible in the Planning Phase. This doesn't change the experience of not getting in first - i.e. never seeing the battle button. All the effort of those boosts goes wasted all too often.

Third GL in the past has said that start times in wars can have a 3-6 second lag between clans due to servers. So if they get a head start on a small clan with low HP core the war is over before you even get a start button.

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This is the main issue here - the lag and the head start the opposing clan get. But there is also the case of the order of events (maybe lag too?) after the battle is over - something we have little visibility of (and speculation won't solve it either). See my post above on experience here.
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Your best chance is to add another player or use a defense boost. You may still lose if they get a head start, but you might get to put up a fight.

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It really, in my experience, just comes down to who gets in first - regardless of boosts. Some you win and most you lose lately though. If it was 50/50 (which is was some time ago) we would probably just cop it and not bother mentioning it in these forums.
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Most larger clans never even notice the delay just maybe a delay with spinning wheel at start of war.

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See comment above on this - agree.
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SnipeyMcSniperFace / DT was a78d2d5 now a78d2d5b / Android / Server: apa / 1. ​Been playing SF since UPD6 (Aug 2016) and every day since Nov 2016 / 2. I am a Gameloft customer not employee / 3. Sometimes I find it annoying when SF changes / 4. I value privacy so I am not on Facebook / 5. I don't take cosplay selfies of me dressed in latex as SF characters like Val or Daisy, etc. (no matter how cute it would be!)
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KonaSniper

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Thu Jul 23, 2020 9:54 am
Thanks to both of you!  We are a small clan (2 members) and probably fight wars 4-5 times a week.  We win about 80% but recently have come across this situation a couple of times.  The war is over before we even press the Battle Button (if indeed we even get the Battle Button).

If there is a lag between servers that would certainly explain it.  It seems as if there is not a lot we can do about it.  We are working on adding HP but with just 2 of us it is slow.  We have started hitting the Hardcore Boss just to get the extra AP.

A related question (regarding boosts) - Loose Screws ps an "Exotic Explosive" and when I look at the Boost choices they are Sniper/Pistol, Assault Weapon, RPGs and Railguns.   Do any of these boosts work on the Loose Screws?
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SnipeyMcSniperFace

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Weapon / gear for clan core

Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:30 am
KonaSniper wrote:
Thanks to both of you!

[snip]

A related question (regarding boosts) - Loose Screws ps an "Exotic Explosive" and when I look at the Boost choices they are Sniper/Pistol, Assault Weapon, RPGs and Railguns.   Do any of these boosts work on the Loose Screws?

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I don't have "Loose Screws" so I can't answer the question.

There was a thread recently (including input from a Game Master) on what the best weapon / gear set, etc. are for attacking a clan core. Here's the link:

viewtopic.php?f=2031&t=701197
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SnipeyMcSniperFace / DT was a78d2d5 now a78d2d5b / Android / Server: apa / 1. ​Been playing SF since UPD6 (Aug 2016) and every day since Nov 2016 / 2. I am a Gameloft customer not employee / 3. Sometimes I find it annoying when SF changes / 4. I value privacy so I am not on Facebook / 5. I don't take cosplay selfies of me dressed in latex as SF characters like Val or Daisy, etc. (no matter how cute it would be!)
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TimMurphy

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Fri Jul 24, 2020 12:30 am
A related question (regarding boosts) - Loose Screws ps an "Exotic Explosive" and when I look at the Boost choices they are Sniper/Pistol, Assault Weapon, RPGs and Railguns.   Do any of these boosts work on the Loose Screws?

RPG buffs work on loose screws.
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KonaSniper

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Fri Jul 24, 2020 1:41 am
Thank you Snipey and Tim!! Your suggestions are greatly appreciated!!
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SnipeyMcSniperFace

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Battle button failure (hanging)

Sun Aug 02, 2020 1:24 am
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Adding a screen pic to this thread for the record.

Sometimes it is possible to select the "Battle" button (i.e. the"battle" button does appear) but then all that happens is the attached screen pic (button goes grey after pressing). The only thing that solves this is a restart of the game. By the time you get back in to the game the war is lost.
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SnipeyMcSniperFace / DT was a78d2d5 now a78d2d5b / Android / Server: apa / 1. ​Been playing SF since UPD6 (Aug 2016) and every day since Nov 2016 / 2. I am a Gameloft customer not employee / 3. Sometimes I find it annoying when SF changes / 4. I value privacy so I am not on Facebook / 5. I don't take cosplay selfies of me dressed in latex as SF characters like Val or Daisy, etc. (no matter how cute it would be!)
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David Workman

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Re: War is Over Before It Starts

Sun Aug 02, 2020 9:09 am
Think that is a server issue. Seems to me some not many of GL servers are not updating/talking. Finding that most issues I get are solved by restarting. Get a different server then all good. For wars I restart about 10 min before battle. Then check Clan chat/Global Chat and clan data, If chat or Clan data not right restart again. For some these are good indicators that you are on a bad server.