Something interesting to share? Come on in!
User avatar

dummy0151

Senior Member

Posts

1311

Location

Weyhausen, Germany

Element and Physical Values explanation

Fri Jul 31, 2015 9:53 pm
Hey folks, me again, i want to explain something about defense and attack values, as i noticed, some people in my region chat were nagging because they were dealing low damage on boss, even with a strong element, and a guy asked once in forums too about the 200% light damage not working (viewtopic.php?f=1816&t=236309)

anyways, frist things frist:

1 - if you didn't know this thing, now you know. and i hope it can help you.
2 - if you know this, don't come with certain messages, i'm not the war-person and all your attempts to "fight" will fail, i also know how to put out fires, it does mean i can't burn to deth, i does not mean you can't flame others.

Okay, things said, let's begin:

Intro - Notice your defense/attack values in character page, that is your Global stats (physical+elemental, it is stacked), that does not really tell you how much damage you give to everyone, that will count every time you hit someone with a weak element, for example: 2K global atk with a ice sword, that will count as 2k against a fire set. but not against a nature set, what will count towards the nature set will be the physical ones (attack and defense), not your elemental, armors have their physical def, weapons have physical attack (ORLY?) these are the real deal. and are the most important thing you should notice.

Physical Stats

check this:
Image
Image

The physical stats, are the main stats of regular items, skills, weapons, armors and shields, have their value listed under the item itself, as numbers (ORLY?), they are "the core working in the shadows" as people don't really care about them. the Global Value is the one listed under the character and the is less important when you don't rely onto elemental advantages, as they are the Physical stats combined with the Elemental stats, elemental stats didn't showed up stacked with physical before some patches, the damage and defense under the main character was displayed as the physical.

if you are a newbie and don't get why that 3 star items have 1K def/attack, its because they were a reward from wanted challenges, after getting 10.000 points, you were awarded with these items, normal 3 stars items from missions cap at 825.


Elemental stats

check this:
Image

The elemental stats, are the ones applied after the physical one (the-water>fire>nature>death>light>water thing) example: if i have around 2,200 light def, but i have a maxed event set (that's 2100 physical def), a person with a non-event death weapon having 2.500 death damage (like 1.800 physical, and a boost from death bracer/weapon boost), will not give me much damage, as event sets are the most powerful in the game, it will still give me damage, but my physical defense will tank all the "deadly" part, and then element boosts are applied, it will be low. (i am counting the attack-def thing, i'm not a dev, if i was, dh would not be that imbalanced) so the elemental things are always counted AFTER the physical damage is applied, then your damage/defense will be boosted by element %'s and your damage will be coloured if you hit/get hit by someone with a weak/strong element... so before going to bosses/raids/tzimeko, always check your physical stats, they are the ones that will help you. remember that skills have variations (one giving more atk, one balancing atk and def, and one giving more def) that way you will be able to "plan" (if you manage to get and 5*-lvl100 all variations) your moves.

will that help me pick equipments?
not really. go for what boost your physical stats, not for a full-element gear if you still have 3-4* items. always pick the ones with highest star/level. and not the ones of same element. (only try for a full element once you are able to get wanted items or have them high-level, in the end its all your choice anyway)

to make things clear:
check "Magical Properties" tab at lower-left side.

physical values, using light armor with non-light skill items:
Image

My global damage is 4.033. but my physical damage is 3.347, so when i hit a water guy, what will count frist is my 3.347 dmg, then the extra dmg comes (from spear boost and light element boost as well), it does not count my enemy physical defense nor his water defense stack. my global defense is 3.326, but my physical defense is 3.010, so if a guy with water weapon hits me, what will count frist for damage reduction will be my 3.010 dmg, i can still take high damage if his physical damage is high. water is weaker than light

water xinkashi armor with xinkashi spear and same skills:
Image
Global.ATK: 3.363, Physical.ATK: 3.347, its high if i hit a death guy that has a physical def less than 3K. death is stronger than light
Global.DEF: 3.937, Physical.DEF: 3.267, that's low if a guy with 3.300+ physical damage guy hits me even if he has a fire weapon. water is stronger than fire

elemental values, using light skill items and a light armor:
Image
my global damage with light items is 3.945, but my physical damage is 3.023, that will be low on a water armor guy if he has 3.100+ physical defense, my global defense is 3.658, but my physical defense is 2.825, that will be high if a guy with water weapon has 3.000+ physical attack. light is stronger than water.

Damage Modifiers
Well this update is about the damage modifiers, thanks to ME_Gameloft, he provided some information about the damages towards the whole weapon type (as nobody seem to know about that even with the hint saying who gave damage and such in loading screen)

the posted pics shows "tests" made with my items, almost all of them having 1.000 stats (plain, only used the guild bonuses, stripped off all the spells) also i must insist again on the whole Physical Stats thing. as i didn't attacked my keeper with items that had elemental advantage.So, i'll Quote him:
ME_Gameloft
I'll need to take a longer look at the thread, but I can tell you that the formula for damage calculation is a lot more complicated than just your attack vs their defense (it involves arctan, among other things! o.0)

Basically, your attack is compared to their defense, and this creates a damage mitigation coefficient that is then applied to your attack damage, and then you add all the things like crit, crit dmg, elemental bonus, various damage bonuses and also another coefficient regarding weapon attack animation length (this is why greatswords deal more damage per hit than, say, a crossbow, even though you might have the same attack).

Here's a simple translation about the quoted message:

The weapons cause a different amount of damage, even if their physical value is the same, also the attack animations increase the damage, as in the 2nd hit and in the "power attack" (the last hit) always deal far more damage than the 1st hit. after the whole atk-def thing get a coeficient, using the weps as well to calculate. the Modifiers are added (such as Elemental damage, Critical hits, Weapon attack bonuses, Bloodrage, Bralwer, etc... anything that can add or reduce damage) after the modifiers you will get a final damage...

And for the "IMPOSSIBRU" people... PICS:
Greatswords:
Image

Glaives:
Image

Dual-Blades... (there's a small thing to take notice, i got rid of my dual blades from the event that had 1.000 atk, because my account was younger and i needed inventory space :( the dual sword there is from the new light wanted, at level  47 it has 1.067 stats (so you may use -67 on that 208... it is 141))
Image

Staff:
Image

Crossbow:
Image

thats how it works for now, try to remember that: Physical damage is different from Elemental damage.
Last edited by dummy0151 on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar

shast24

Senior Member

Apple (iOS)
Posts

297

Too long.
no avatar

Talaxis

Senior Member

Apple (iOS)
Posts

250

maybe for a 3 year old on a sugar high.  if the information is accurate that's a great write up and description.
shast24 wrote:
Too long.
no avatar

Lloyd Bee

Junior Member

Posts

11

Yeah good explanation!
I'm lvl 109 and always wondered how this really worked...
User avatar

gucci

Senior Member

Posts

353

Sounds good.
no avatar

smile.x7x

Junior Member

Posts

10

Hello! Missions and actions do not work! Do I call at a game and can not play what problem? Shows the roller of game and farther it is only possible to attack opponents and missions and actions do not work! Help please!
no avatar

CT T

Senior Member

Posts

154

Good timing bumping an old thread! I do wish to know if weapon-type bonus (+10% glaive damage etc) would be added to base damage to constitute 'physical damage' (using terminology of OP). At the moment, weapon-type bonus is added to base attack, together with elemental bonuses, to calculate the global attack.
For those who feel the first post is too long, take note OP is taking an attempt to explain how damages might work. Personally I've encountered situations where 'elemental advantage' doesn't give you much advantage. With recent update, even with the help of more bonuses from trinkets, it is still hard to kill high armor minions (eg. conjurers, naga, ogurin with trap armor bonus; >3.9k before guild bonus), WHEN your base attack is too low.
Last edited by CT T on Sat Aug 22, 2015 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar

dummy0151

Senior Member

Posts

1311

Location

Weyhausen, Germany

CT T wrote:
Good timing bumping an old thread! I do wish to know if weapon-type bonus (+10% glaive damage etc) would be added to base damage to constitute 'physical damage' (using terminology of OP). At the moment, weapon-type bonus is added to base attack, together with elemental bonuses, to calculate the global attack.
For those who feel the first post is too long, take note OP is taking an attempt to explain how damages might work. Personally I've encountered situations where 'elemental advantage' doesn't give you much advantage. With recent update, even with the help of more bonuses from trinkets, it is still hard to kill high armor minions (eg. conjurers, naga, ogurin with trap armor bonus; >3.9k before guild bonus), WHEN your base attack low is low.
 

last time i checked with a alt account lvl 5, using a low level greatsword and a low level armor that gave bonus to greatswords (with skills unequipped) the damage was merely global. and not physical. don't know if they changed... also SH's are incredibly broken... these mobs armors may be over 3.6+
http://mobileforum.gameloft.com/forum_revamp/viewtopic.php?f=1816&t=255419
@Gameloft
XP rates have been adjusted to offer a better gaming experience. Thanks,

I do QA's job better than them, and i'm not even paid to that! that's why i'm not reporting the glitches either... 
no avatar

CT T

Senior Member

Posts

154

It is indeed global. If you add 30% of base you wil get the global (for a 'standard' set with 10% weapon and 20% elemental). Though that 10% weapon bonus might be attributed to this hidden property that you temporarily coined as 'physical'.
After my bad encounters with those enemy conjurers and naga, using my inferior set that has low base attack, i tried to calculate final damages by testing with my home made conjurer. With no success. Then was busy with 2 quick updates and put that aside. May have to try again using tips from your post, after confirming the 'uselessness' of elemental bonus in a certain situation. The trinket update is really a wake-up call. 5k global is bogus. There is a reason why GL sell +1 SF for (at least) 50 gems lol.
User avatar

dummy0151

Senior Member

Posts

1311

Location

Weyhausen, Germany

CT T wrote:
It is indeed global. If you add 30% of base you wil get the global (for a 'standard' set with 10% weapon and 20% elemental). Though that 10% weapon bonus might be attributed to this hidden property that you temporarily coined as 'physical'.
After my bad encounters with those enemy conjurers and naga, using my inferior set that has low base attack, i tried to calculate final damages by testing with my home made conjurer. With no success. Then was busy with 2 quick updates and put that aside. May have to try again using tips from your post, after confirming the 'uselessness' of elemental bonus in a certain situation. The trinket update is really a wake-up call. 5k global is bogus. There is a reason why GL sell +1 SF for (at least) 50 gems lol.





 

if you have multiple element sets you can actually break that, by forcing global stats on enemies instead of elemental, if a enemy that you know (a buddy, in the enemies list) has a trinket and more than 4.700 global defense, you can break it by using a non-element advantage weapon. like if he has nature armor you can force a global stats by attacking him with a water weapon, his 4.7 def won't protect him.. hahahahah, also you can use high physical def for elemental advantages, just do check if your elemental def is higher than his attack or there may be problems....

also the bonus from sets that contains Attack value, adds up to physical instead of global... wich is cool actually.
Image

Image

Image

the damage being coined as physical i didn't really notice. it seems to flag as elemental damage from the weapon you are using (ex: crossbow dmg, it can boost any element damage of the crossbows you has, like use a fire one, it will boost, but it will also boost a light one). so it seems sometimes with skills, as i gave nature damage carrying my nature greatsword using my darkness bolts sometimes. its all really, really, "weird" and the devs know how it works, jp helped a bit. but we could use moar info.
http://mobileforum.gameloft.com/forum_revamp/viewtopic.php?f=1816&t=255419
@Gameloft
XP rates have been adjusted to offer a better gaming experience. Thanks,

I do QA's job better than them, and i'm not even paid to that! that's why i'm not reporting the glitches either...